| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
979
   |
Posted - 2011.12.12 23:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
DurrHurrDurr wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Morganta wrote:still not enough for monocle Monocle is so ugly they should pay people for wearing it.  The monocle is amazing.
you superglued a bottlecap.
onto your face.
And CCP Zinfandel is laughing at you.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
982
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 10:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
I took the remaps.
The giveaway aurum offers are an obviously desperate attempt to breath some illusionary life into a dead and rotten MT store. If you want to play the wise long game just ignore it and it'll end up getting more desperate yet (and giving more aurum away) or will fold completely and give everything away (ie adding the NeX content to the character designer / faction lp stores).
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
987
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 14:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:In case that some of you didn't decided yet, here's a word of advice from Mittens: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/208990/page/2Quote:However, I can say - purely from unspoken nuances that arenGÇÖt covered by NDAs - that CCP seems to have backed away from the NeX store concept. Aurum seems to be a dirty word - or a bitter joke - around the office. This isn't to say that CCP will never implement some form of microtransactions, but the devs now contemplate the idea with a degree of care bordering on the terror - Microtransaction PTSD, as it were. In case you already took the 2,000 AUR, I suggest to petition to withdraw your choice before holiday gifts are sent december 22nd. (Frankly, I smelled rats about giving away an esteemed 250 million to people when everything else is around the 40 million mark...)
Good. Seems the Eve developers have come to see Aurum in exactly the same light that players opposed to Microtransactions contaminating Eve online do.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
987
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am sure this is just another example of "The Mittani" blowing smoke out of his ass. CCP can't possibly be stupid enough to introduce something like the NEX store and then just drop it and let it stagnate forever just because of a few whiny bitches that don't understand that CCP needs to make money and can't possibly just ignore something that doesn't effect them if they don't want to use it.
Then again maybe they are...
those "few whiny bitches" are the difference between the company succeeding or failing. They are pretty much the user base who decided to express their strong disapproval for microtransactions this summer and autumn.
Your are remaking the same bankrupt arguments as NeX-advocates have all along that have been refuted a thosand times. CCP makes money by increasing the number of subscribers. You don't get to make a significant additional income from MT payments in a premium subscription total unless your customers are idiots. Just because some of the idiots are vocal idiots doesn't change this essential dynamic.
If you want to give CCP extra money without impacting the sandbox I suggest you withdraw a hundred bucks from an ATM machine, address an envelope to "CCP hilmar - Iceland", slip the cash inside and feel good about yourself.
(alternatively you could open a 2nd account or buy some extra plex).
Just quit pushing this NeX crap on the rest of us who want our contact delivered by in-game player-centric production systems that express the unique vision of the Eve single server universe.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
987
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:In case that some of you didn't decided yet, here's a word of advice from Mittens: http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/208990/page/2Quote:However, I can say - purely from unspoken nuances that arenGÇÖt covered by NDAs - that CCP seems to have backed away from the NeX store concept. Aurum seems to be a dirty word - or a bitter joke - around the office. This isn't to say that CCP will never implement some form of microtransactions, but the devs now contemplate the idea with a degree of care bordering on the terror - Microtransaction PTSD, as it were. In case you already took the 2,000 AUR, I suggest to petition to withdraw your choice before holiday gifts are sent december 22nd. (Frankly, I smelled rats about giving away an esteemed 250 million to people when everything else is around the 40 million mark...) Damn shame. Service that didn't exist before, didn't require a lot of development, provided a nice isk sink and didn't impinge upon anybodies gameplay. Killed by a bunch of binge drinking frat boys. Thats ok, I hope CCP just moves the nex store and future items like ship skins etc to account management for real dollars, no more spending surplus isk on a monocle through the market. Account bound vanity items for cash only thanks. Or just up the subscription rate and plex cost. Probably overdue for a bump.
Or stop wasting untold millions of Eve subscription dollars developing World of Darkness on the dodgy provisio it'll kick back some wonderful incarna tech for us to swoon over.
Wait. Hasn't that already happened?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
988
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 16:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
I'm taking the aurum for that day when they let us change bloodline and(hopefully and)/or race. Not much else really appealed to me, since I have a remap coming on the 21st anyway.
Ship skins, remaps, character re-customization for aurum please.
Why don't you round up your 2 friends and shoot the statue in Jita about it ?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
988
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Disdaine wrote:Halcyon Ingenium wrote:
I'm taking the aurum for that day when they let us change bloodline and(hopefully and)/or race. Not much else really appealed to me, since I have a remap coming on the 21st anyway.
Ship skins, remaps, character re-customization for aurum please. Why don't you round up your 2 friends and shoot the statue in Jita about it ? How droll.
Well perhaps if you'd like to engage in some intelligent discussion you'd like to begin by explaining why players who already pay a premium-rate subscription for an MMO should be charged extra "microtransactions" for elements of content we have long expected to be added to the core client functionality? Customization of ship skins is something many of us have been waiting for since 2003 and seeing as the graphic framework (v3'ing) is being done on our subscription dollar why do you support the skins being considered optional content that you pay extra for rather than the basis for player to player industrial investment and marketing in game?
Furthermore, why do you believe in pushing convenience microtransactions that provide a skill training advantage into a premium subscription MMO that prides itself on its player led economic sandbox? Whats NeXt? Aurum for skill points? You may as well argue for that if you are going for the remap route.
I may well have been somewhat "droll" to suggest you gather your pair of friends to protest for these changes but the reality of the situation is that your point of view is profoundly unpopular and came close to killing this game last autumn. CCP have now removed head from ass and are moving in the proper direction once more and you want them to go back to the bad old days of CCP monocle and thousand dollar jeans?
Many people would be considerably less polite than I on the subject.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
988
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Remember: The Jita Riot was about 2 years of neglect, not just the NeX; MTs were only the final straw.
Yep, was simply an awful lot of insult to injury that we ended up with 2 years of nothing except a mandatory microtransaction display cabinet (CQ) at the cost of our familiar ship spinning functionality and it didn't help that most of the PR running from CCP came from monocle and thosand dollar jeans.
But I grant you, it was the final straw not the entirety of the issue.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
989
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:I don't believe my subscription entitles me to anything more than logging in and playing the game as provided and I have no problem with not being able to manufacture vanity items. I can't manufacture the new implants or Quafe Zero so I'm not about to start complaining that I can't manufacture a shirt.
Your point of view perhaps, but it is a minority one. Why should the fact you don't mind paying microtransaction fees on top of premium subs mean that other players who disagree should be denied the content they want and ability to manufacture and retail customization items in game? I think you are arguing the case as a gamer who has gotten used to MT models in other games and you are trying to bring them to Eve where they simply don't fit.
Quote:The day CCP starts handing out free skill points to everyone as yearly gifts so long as you don't go away on holidays over christmas then yes, I will tolerate skill training boosters available for aurum. But they won't, so I don't.
You just argued for skill remaps for aurum. The two things are related.
Quote:Ahh, so NEX was killing eve. I thought for a while that it was CCP focusing on WiS, WoD and Dust to the exclusion of most everything else that was the problem, not a few clothes developed using the already integrated character creator and a hastily hobbled together storefront providing me the opportunity to purchase vanity items for ISK.
Again these things are related.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
989
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:
Good. Seems the Eve developers have come to see Aurum in exactly the same light that players opposed to Microtransactions contaminating Eve online do.
There were no microtransactions. I havent been able to log in for weeks, although hopefully I can next week once the last parts for my new pc arrive. I didnt see anything that I liked though, I dont need remaps or aurum. I wish ccp would remove nex store so it could be blissfully forgotten. If there was quafe zero I would propably take it and wonder where I might use it.
I think there is Quafe Zero in the gift selection.
But on the MT point. Sure, if you want to describe Microtransactions as "micro" then yep, what CCP did with NeX store would be properly called "macrotransaction" or just plain stupid. But perhaps its overcomplicating matters to come with multiple terms for what is a loading of cash shop content onto an existing subscription game to make this "hybrid" model.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
989
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
T'amber Anomandari Demaleon wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Disdaine wrote:I don't believe my subscription entitles me to anything more than logging in and playing the game as provided and I have no problem with not being able to manufacture vanity items. I can't manufacture the new implants or Quafe Zero so I'm not about to start complaining that I can't manufacture a shirt. Your point of view perhaps, but it is a minority one. Why should the fact you don't mind paying microtransaction fees on top of premium subs mean that other players who disagree should be denied the content they want and ability to manufacture and retail customization items in game? I think you are arguing the case as a gamer who has gotten used to MT models in other games and you are trying to bring them to Eve where they simply don't fit. Quote:The day CCP starts handing out free skill points to everyone as yearly gifts so long as you don't go away on holidays over christmas then yes, I will tolerate skill training boosters available for aurum. But they won't, so I don't. You just argued for skill remaps for aurum. The two things are related. Quote:Ahh, so NEX was killing eve. I thought for a while that it was CCP focusing on WiS, WoD and Dust to the exclusion of most everything else that was the problem, not a few clothes developed using the already integrated character creator and a hastily hobbled together storefront providing me the opportunity to purchase vanity items for ISK. Again these things are related. keep banging your head against the wall jade, these ones are lost to us forever.
Call me a hopeless idealist. I like to believe that people can be helped to understand things.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
989
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:
Call me a hopeless idealist. I like to believe that people can be helped to understand things.
That's the way the early missionaries felt. We must make them understand!
Hmmm, I thought ccp monocle and ccp thousand dollar jeans were the missionaries here trying to spread the holy word of virtual goods to the benighted subscription payment masses of Eve online.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
991
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 12:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Tippia wrote:Disdaine wrote:No, we simply spread the word amongst your congregation that there were alternatives. That we could peacefully coexist. Just one problem: there are no alternatives, and as long as one steals from the other, they can't really coexist peacefullyGǪ 
No need to roll your eyes about it. Tippia has it spot on. You are asking us to "peacefully coexist" with people who are expecting to steal our subscription money to fund their art design project that is then sold back to us as a separate purchase!
There is nothing in the NeX store (or even hinted at the future for the NeX store) that should not be included in the client for Eve online and attainable through direct gameplay.
We pay for Eve online with our subs.
CCP employ an art department (on our subs)
It is not unreasonable for us to expect said art department to improve the game we pay for (on our subs).
Incarna is an example of your way of thinking (zero content outside the NeX store)
Crucible is an example of our way of thinking (all content in the eve client.)
Really people are smart enough to take their pick.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
998
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 14:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:
Actually I'd already stated that they handled Incarna poorly. Focusing on WiS and the NEX to the detriment of FiS. So now we're prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't like it. Get rid of it. Abolish it. If a single cent of your revenue goes towards anything other than FiS I will be cross...
What "baby" are you talking about. Incarna is the "baby" (ie walking in station content) "NEX" is the rotten bathwater. Flush away NeX and keep potential player industry content through Incarna certainly.
You have a bad habit of not reading other peope's post. I don't mind that some of our subs money went to developing walking in stations. I DO MIND (a lot) that ANY of our subs money went to developing NeX (since the concept is about using our subs money to con us into additional expense for customizaton assets we've already payed for the development of).
Quote:Extremism... I don't like the idea of Dust. I've never owned a console and never will. Probably wouldn't bother with Dust even if they ported it to the PC. I'm not going to start calling for CCP to scrap it. I'm sure there's quite a few people who are interested in Dust. Just as there were a few people interested in WiS and to a lesser extent a cash shop.
I don't believe there is a significant minority who wants the cash shop in Eve. Every couple of weeks we get a particularly outspoken forum alt who seems to want to argue the toss again but the results of large scale crowdsourcing, public polls and player reaction all underline that the cash shop is immensely unpopular in a subscription MMO. CCP themselves seem to have gotten this message now - and it seems only the trolls and misguided MT missionaries (from other games) who are yet to admit that NeX has no place in eve.
To your point about Dust .. I'm also near completely disinterested in the concept (although I do own a PS3) because of its Microtransaction-based funding model. Go figure.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
998
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 14:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Quote:The industry that the creation of the NeX items could generate. Which didn't exist prior to the NEX. Can't seem to recall too many threads begging CCP for industry created clothing. I'm sure you'll dig one up though.
I remember CCP's own design promises for Incarna that described player industry in the stations where players would manufacture the content for avatars and establishments. The fact this promse was completely broken and we got NeX instead to reveal the pure cash shop vanity display case function of Incarna is not history.
Quote:But the Nex enabled me to buy these boots and skirt and clothing for every other character which I admire from time to time during breaks from trading and exploring. May not be your definition of gameplay, which seems to be the problem.
And your gameplay here has been at the cost of many many thousands of other players who were robbed of gameplay through Incarna by the NeX shop. The history of Eve has been about corrections in the system and game mechanics in the interest of good gameplay for the majority.
It was once conisidered "good gameplay" by M0O corp to lag out the passari gate with so many cans that victim's clients went inactive when they jumped through. This was declared an exploit and they were stopped. That was their "gameplay" at the cost of other players. To be honest I see your "defense" of a horrible cash store in Eve because you personally like to load your alts with clothing purchased purely through the cash store as similar selfish monomania of your particular wierd schtick at the expense of others.
(whereas) I want every player to have an opportunity to manufacture and purchase those clothes through LP stores (or other mechanisms) to widen gameplay and involve people in the eve universe. I want to celebrate the player led economic sandbox which you appear to prefer to make a mockery of.
Quote:Sorry for using an expression you don't understand. I meant to say there's no reason to scrap the idea of WiS and NEX just because the implementation was flawed and the resources they received caused other parts of eve to suffer.
WIS and NEX are not intrisically linked. You can scrap NEX tomorrow and simply move the clothing to factional LP stores. This is not a great deal of work. And the immediate payoff is a better intergrated system that will still put clothes on the market for you to buy - if you want to buy these things in cash you can convert plex and do it. But the point is they will come from player activity in gameplay and eve as a whole will be the richer for it.
Quote:Me : "we could peacefully coexist....The problem is always the extremists. Focusing on WiS to the detriment of FiS.....Actually I'd already stated that they handled Incarna poorly. Focusing on WiS and the NEX to the detriment of FiS.....I've never stated that the Nex cannot be removed."
Then remove it. The problem with your "peaceful coexistence" argument is that many see NeX as a thief stealing our subs money and charging us for the content we should have had in the first place. You do not "coexist" with a thief, you catch him and escort him from your house to a waiting police van. NeX is the legacy of greed (clueless) "industry experts" who infilitrated CCP over the last couple of years and tried to convince the management (quite successfully) that Eve had to become more like every other mmo clone on the market and the lemmings jumping over the Free to Play cliff knew some great secret about the existence of life.
Problem is they didn't. Eve exists because its quite unique in the market and the players that subscribe to this game like it that way. It doesn't become more competitive by appealing to WoW-head exiles virtually drunk on sparkle ponies and epic mounts because frankly those people don't last more than 2 days into the trial before somebody scams/suicide ganks/ them into next week and they decide the game isn't for them.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1004
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 16:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:You can scrap NEX tomorrow and simply move the clothing to factional LP stores. This is not a great deal of work. And the immediate payoff is a better intergrated system that will still put clothes on the market for you to buy - if you want to buy these things in cash you can convert plex and do it. But the point is they will come from player activity in gameplay and eve as a whole will be the richer for it.
Great. So do it. I might suggest an overhaul of the LP store interface while they're at it. Then once that exists the nex will serve no purpose and can fall by the wayside, or maybe CCP will use it to sell extraneous things like character re-customization, alliance logo redesigns, whatever.
So its fair to say you now support the principle of removing the NeX store and transfering all existing and (unreleased) NeX content into the Faction loyalty point stores so that players can purchase this content with gameplay earned LP points and resale on the market right?
If this is now your position then there isn't really much left to debate about.
Quote:Just to clarify. I have no problem with the NEX in its current implementation. Obviously some do. They call for its removal because its an evil game destroying entity out to devour the old and weak.
No we call for its removal because as Tippia has explained to you it blocks the provision of content wanted by Eve players. The NeX store ensured that CCP needed to break their promise to enrich the character designer, to break their promise to bring player led industry to Incarna, to break their promise about actual content through Incarna. And the finally irony - because CCP is so utterly embarrased by NeX and the aurum fiasco it can't even release the remainder of content flagged for the NeX store because they know there will be another flare up of bad press and anti CCP sentiment if they do so.
NeX is not about devouring the "old and the weak" its about a creeping contamination of Eve Online by wow-infected sparkle-ponyism providing to the lazy and clueless. Click button get content is a betrayal of eve online's player led industry and content gameplay. In this game it takes effort to get flashy things. And thats one of the things that's kept it successful.
Quote:I like to purchase clothes and monocles either through the nex or market. If the Nex is removed the prices of these items will skyrocket. Once there is an industry in place to provide the same services as the Nex then it is redundant and then it can be removed.
So join me in asking CCP to replace the NeX store as a priority - with all existing and unpublished content going into the faction loyalty point stores. Problem solved.
Quote:Until then I do not wish to see it removed. So instead of trying to convince me of how evil the Nex is, why don't you start convincing CCP to develop an alternate means of delivering these services. You'll find it a lot easier to get someone to ditch a service if there is someone else able to supply that service.
I don't think anyone is actually arguing that all the NeX content should be thrown away with the NeX store - instead it needs to be liberated and brought into the mainstream player led market of the game.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1004
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 16:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Disdaine wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:
So join me in asking CCP to replace the NeX store as a priority - with all existing and unpublished content going into the faction loyalty point stores. Problem solved.
No problem with replacing the NEX , only with removing it. +1
Kinda heartwarming to see what we can achieve with sustained discussion :)
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
| |
|